More on bonuses - 5 comments
I had planned to comment on Peter Hain's plea (actually, it was a veiled demand) a fortnight ago that City firms donate "two-thirds of their bonus pots to charity rather than giving employees six-figure bonuses", but I didn't take it seriously. However, city bonuses seem to have become a cause célèbre for politicians who seem to have lost the will to talk about genuinely egalitarian politics.
Chris Dillow cites Ian Gibson MP's recent comments [via]:
I don't think people should have bonuses at all. They are unacceptable. I think itâs got worse. If the Labour Party recognised this problem then they would have more support today.Well, why might bonuses be offered? Sure, there are fiddles, but the most plausible reason is to make it worth workers while to work harder (without compulsion), to improve the running of their organisation, take responsibility for its success, and to come up with ideas for making it more efficient. Without making it too obvious which one is which, I will have worked in:
- An organisation so large that my personal contribution couldn't possibly affect my bonus.
- A tiny organisation, unable to offer any incentive at all for a greater contribution.
- A small organisation that was able to offer large bonuses in successful years.
The real danger comes about when these "bonuses" are entrenched, allowing the recipient to gain economic or political power in this generation, or giving their offspring an undeserved head-start in the next - but these abuses can be tackled in other ways (inheritance tax, for one), as they very well should be.
Tom S lists a number of practical objections to bonuses in a comment left at Chris' blog above, and to deal with one of those here: of course we hope that human beings would work hard and innovate for the sheer love of
So the challenge as I see it is to find some way of encouraging (or perhaps, rediscovering) benevolent and charitable behaviour - a feeling in people that they ought to contribute to society because it makes for a more contended place for all, rather than leaving this decision entirely to governments, and concealing your wealth whenever you have enough of it. I don't accept this is just a "City" problem: the lack of benevolent behaviour ("greed", if you like) is not the preserve of the super-rich - it increases with income, from a low base, and particularly affects the non-religious - even though the sums involved here are huge. Moreover, for too many on our side, "the City" is a place of fear, mystery, and conspiracy, and it's too tempting to single it out rather than tackle a society-wide problem.
Labels: bonuses, charity, economics, inheritance tax, Peter Hain, religion, socialism












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5 comments so far...
So we need to encourage more benevolent behaviour to tackle the inequalities and injustices generated by the economy?
Labour has come a long way in the last century.
So we need to encourage more benevolent behaviour...
Of course we must - it's the only antidote to greed in a free society.
...to tackle the inequalities and injustices generated by the economy?
No, I tried to distinguish between differences in outcome that derive from differing skills/talents/work levels, and ones that result from using economic power to generate political power or to feather the nest of the next generation. Individual benevolence can't be the sole answer to inequality; nonetheless, simply concentrating on redistribution ignores some (not all) of people's motivations to work, even in a future socialist society.
These City bonuses are such an easy target. How much controversial it would be to, say, introduce a Citizen's Income, even though you'd make an immediate, dramatic impact on some people's lives. Doing a tax grab just makes the pot bigger, but who, honestly, would notice the difference?
You really think that benevolence is the only antidote to greed?
Jeez, you've come over all victorian.
No, I tried to distinguish between differences in outcome that derive from differing skills/talents/work levels
Aye, but seperate argument to the relative desirability of charity to democratic socialists. I would argue that wages should reflect the amount and/or quality of work put in (thus discounting any logical need for any bonuses, big ofr small), moderated by a system which caters for the disadvantaged.
Doing a tax grab just makes the pot bigger, but who, honestly, would notice the difference?
Is wealth and poverty based on absolute or relative conceptions? perhaps it does actually make a difference how much more than you the guy at the top earns. It has, for example, and effect on prices and inflation, but also on one's level of self respect.
Tackling poverty is not enough, greater equality is demanded. Further, benevolence is far from the only tool for doing so, especially in a relative context (and let's face it, if we're talking absolutes, everything is fine unless you have cholera).
Personally I would argue that, because it depends on consent, and we live under a capitalism which depends on accumulating profit just so that it is there, ie. 'profit for profit's sake', and consent is not thus rationally given, charity depends on fashion and fads of philanthropy; it is probably the least desirable method of creating equality, as it is doomed to the least effective.
Essentially, the more capitalistic a society or social consciousness, the more greedy the individuals. More pointless money for more things which are unneeded, or just the fleshing out of the accounts: prioritised over people without heating or shelter. That's what dependency on benevolence gets.
While it is most desirable to appeal to people's better and altruistic nature, it is far more fruitful and thus desirable to combat their worst!
On a seperate note, charity only encourages Bono, which is a rather grim prospect, don't you think?
I would argue that wages should reflect the amount and/or quality of work put in (thus discounting any logical need for any bonuses, big ofr small)
I was going to say that this is just semantics - the key is to have the incentives, whether they're expressed as higher wages, or a bonus on top of wages, but actually in a socialist society, surely there'd be less passive wage-earning, and, say, more earning from self-employment.
... perhaps it does actually make a difference how much more than you the guy at the top earns. It has, for example, and effect on prices and inflation, but also on one's level of self respect.
But is that a result of the wage level itself, or the thought that that buys power, or the thought that it was earned illegitimately? The risk is that some people become means to an end, and that's not compatible with a free society.
I don't think I'm saying that benevolence is a solution to inequality - in fact I don't think I've even talked about equality of income. But we already have a schedule of redistributive taxation that everyone knows. If you rule out additional, post-hoc taxation, you need a way of encouraging the beneficiaries to *want* to contribute to society, not to take the place of existing redistribution. What seems to happen, if you look at charitable donations in the USA and Europe, is that increasing one decreases the other. In other words, (compulsory) redistribution, for all its benefits, kills individual altruism. Ouch. Even if one doesn't worry about the total, the balance between state and individual changes.
Good call on Boneo, BTW.
I think that people make excellent means to the ends of others, because I believe that people should be prepared to sacrifice a degree of control over themselves to the body politic/civil society, for the sake of justice, expressed as material fairness (ie. people should sacrifice their autonomy as far as that sacrifice will compensate for those who have less natural advantage/opportunity). I believe that they should, because they would, from behind a veil of ignorance.
This does not necessarily contradict putting the right (and the conception therein of personal liberty) above the good. But it does come as a moral obligation subordinate to personal liberty which, although subordinate, cannot be ignored.
Your Kantian conception of self-regardingness is a good place to start, but I think that the enlightenment has evolved!
People should treat themselves as a means to others ends where this cancels natural disadvantage, and they should do this by means of a political contract which gives full weight to their moral obligations as opposed to by voluntary 'benevolence', whereby they may simply dissent from what even they would, in fair conditions, agree to be the moral.
Taxation is morally valid when tackling overly large and unjustified inequalities (provided that it works- a different question altogether!). The Marxist in me screams that the equalities are at their most unjustified in exploitative circumstances, ie. where large amounts of cash are accumulated but unearned.
But look how unequal our society is! It must be unearned (and thus exploitative)!
Wow, everything I am is based on a crude tautology...
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