Search:

Last 3 Posts @ July 25, 2008 10:37:53 AM EDT

I-raq and roll (22 mins ago)

An American soldier friend let me listen to some of his pro-war music last night and one track that stuck in my head was Clint Black’s “I-raq and Roll,R...

Though Cowards Flinch

Survey Highlights Ailing Local Healthcare (27 mins ago)

On 5th July, as you're probably aware, the NHS celebrated its 60th anniversary. We marked the day by carrying out a local consultation to find out people’s views abou...

Andy Love MP

Mercury thoughts (36 mins ago)

Anna tasked has recently updated us on her busy life and mentioned the Mercury nominations. Hmm... Adele - 19 British Sea Power - Do You Like Rock Music? Buria...

Rullsenberg Rules

Sunday, February 25, 2007

More on bonuses - 5 comments

I had planned to comment on Peter Hain's plea (actually, it was a veiled demand) a fortnight ago that City firms donate "two-thirds of their bonus pots to charity rather than giving employees six-figure bonuses", but I didn't take it seriously. However, city bonuses seem to have become a cause célèbre for politicians who seem to have lost the will to talk about genuinely egalitarian politics.

Chris Dillow cites Ian Gibson MP's recent comments [via]:
I don't think people should have bonuses at all. They are unacceptable. I think it’s got worse. If the Labour Party recognised this problem then they would have more support today.
Well, why might bonuses be offered? Sure, there are fiddles, but the most plausible reason is to make it worth workers while to work harder (without compulsion), to improve the running of their organisation, take responsibility for its success, and to come up with ideas for making it more efficient. Without making it too obvious which one is which, I will have worked in:
  1. An organisation so large that my personal contribution couldn't possibly affect my bonus.
  2. A tiny organisation, unable to offer any incentive at all for a greater contribution.
  3. A small organisation that was able to offer large bonuses in successful years.
Clearly the incentives are non-existent in (1) and (2), but where they do apply - in (3) - do they promote greed? Well, not necessarily. I don't see why any of the above would not apply just as strongly in a future socialist economy/society, characterised by cooperatives, a one-off equalisation of wealth, and controls on inheritance. People need reasons to do anything, and to make it impossible for them to benefit from their actions is a nail in the coffin of the legitimate economy, whatever economic system is in place. In the case of City bonuses, The Treasury/charities might be lucky enough to earn a windfall in Year 1, but the fund will swiftly dry up, reappearing elsewhere in a different form.

The real danger comes about when these "bonuses" are entrenched, allowing the recipient to gain economic or political power in this generation, or giving their offspring an undeserved head-start in the next - but these abuses can be tackled in other ways (inheritance tax, for one), as they very well should be.

Tom S lists a number of practical objections to bonuses in a comment left at Chris' blog above, and to deal with one of those here: of course we hope that human beings would work hard and innovate for the sheer love of the State it - their colleagues, their profession, the public they serve, their community, and so on. Perhaps this is an impulse it's harder to imagine existing if you believe that work is "alienating" (in the Marxist sense). Surely, though, our society should benefit as a result of human benevolence, rather than being dependent upon it.

So the challenge as I see it is to find some way of encouraging (or perhaps, rediscovering) benevolent and charitable behaviour - a feeling in people that they ought to contribute to society because it makes for a more contended place for all, rather than leaving this decision entirely to governments, and concealing your wealth whenever you have enough of it. I don't accept this is just a "City" problem: the lack of benevolent behaviour ("greed", if you like) is not the preserve of the super-rich - it increases with income, from a low base, and particularly affects the non-religious - even though the sums involved here are huge. Moreover, for too many on our side, "the City" is a place of fear, mystery, and conspiracy, and it's too tempting to single it out rather than tackle a society-wide problem.

Labels: , , , , , ,

5 comments so far...

At 12:19 AM, February 26, 2007, Blogger el tom said...

So we need to encourage more benevolent behaviour to tackle the inequalities and injustices generated by the economy?

Labour has come a long way in the last century.

   
At 2:06 AM, February 26, 2007, Blogger Bloggers4Labour said...

So we need to encourage more benevolent behaviour...

Of course we must - it's the only antidote to greed in a free society.

...to tackle the inequalities and injustices generated by the economy?

No, I tried to distinguish between differences in outcome that derive from differing skills/talents/work levels, and ones that result from using economic power to generate political power or to feather the nest of the next generation. Individual benevolence can't be the sole answer to inequality; nonetheless, simply concentrating on redistribution ignores some (not all) of people's motivations to work, even in a future socialist society.

These City bonuses are such an easy target. How much controversial it would be to, say, introduce a Citizen's Income, even though you'd make an immediate, dramatic impact on some people's lives. Doing a tax grab just makes the pot bigger, but who, honestly, would notice the difference?

   
At 11:20 PM, February 26, 2007, Blogger el tom said...

You really think that benevolence is the only antidote to greed?

Jeez, you've come over all victorian.

No, I tried to distinguish between differences in outcome that derive from differing skills/talents/work levels

Aye, but seperate argument to the relative desirability of charity to democratic socialists. I would argue that wages should reflect the amount and/or quality of work put in (thus discounting any logical need for any bonuses, big ofr small), moderated by a system which caters for the disadvantaged.

Doing a tax grab just makes the pot bigger, but who, honestly, would notice the difference?

Is wealth and poverty based on absolute or relative conceptions? perhaps it does actually make a difference how much more than you the guy at the top earns. It has, for example, and effect on prices and inflation, but also on one's level of self respect.

Tackling poverty is not enough, greater equality is demanded. Further, benevolence is far from the only tool for doing so, especially in a relative context (and let's face it, if we're talking absolutes, everything is fine unless you have cholera).

Personally I would argue that, because it depends on consent, and we live under a capitalism which depends on accumulating profit just so that it is there, ie. 'profit for profit's sake', and consent is not thus rationally given, charity depends on fashion and fads of philanthropy; it is probably the least desirable method of creating equality, as it is doomed to the least effective.

Essentially, the more capitalistic a society or social consciousness, the more greedy the individuals. More pointless money for more things which are unneeded, or just the fleshing out of the accounts: prioritised over people without heating or shelter. That's what dependency on benevolence gets.

While it is most desirable to appeal to people's better and altruistic nature, it is far more fruitful and thus desirable to combat their worst!

On a seperate note, charity only encourages Bono, which is a rather grim prospect, don't you think?

   
At 2:22 AM, February 27, 2007, Blogger Bloggers4Labour said...

I would argue that wages should reflect the amount and/or quality of work put in (thus discounting any logical need for any bonuses, big ofr small)

I was going to say that this is just semantics - the key is to have the incentives, whether they're expressed as higher wages, or a bonus on top of wages, but actually in a socialist society, surely there'd be less passive wage-earning, and, say, more earning from self-employment.

... perhaps it does actually make a difference how much more than you the guy at the top earns. It has, for example, and effect on prices and inflation, but also on one's level of self respect.

But is that a result of the wage level itself, or the thought that that buys power, or the thought that it was earned illegitimately? The risk is that some people become means to an end, and that's not compatible with a free society.

I don't think I'm saying that benevolence is a solution to inequality - in fact I don't think I've even talked about equality of income. But we already have a schedule of redistributive taxation that everyone knows. If you rule out additional, post-hoc taxation, you need a way of encouraging the beneficiaries to *want* to contribute to society, not to take the place of existing redistribution. What seems to happen, if you look at charitable donations in the USA and Europe, is that increasing one decreases the other. In other words, (compulsory) redistribution, for all its benefits, kills individual altruism. Ouch. Even if one doesn't worry about the total, the balance between state and individual changes.

Good call on Boneo, BTW.

   
At 12:37 AM, February 28, 2007, Blogger el tom said...

I think that people make excellent means to the ends of others, because I believe that people should be prepared to sacrifice a degree of control over themselves to the body politic/civil society, for the sake of justice, expressed as material fairness (ie. people should sacrifice their autonomy as far as that sacrifice will compensate for those who have less natural advantage/opportunity). I believe that they should, because they would, from behind a veil of ignorance.

This does not necessarily contradict putting the right (and the conception therein of personal liberty) above the good. But it does come as a moral obligation subordinate to personal liberty which, although subordinate, cannot be ignored.

Your Kantian conception of self-regardingness is a good place to start, but I think that the enlightenment has evolved!

People should treat themselves as a means to others ends where this cancels natural disadvantage, and they should do this by means of a political contract which gives full weight to their moral obligations as opposed to by voluntary 'benevolence', whereby they may simply dissent from what even they would, in fair conditions, agree to be the moral.

Taxation is morally valid when tackling overly large and unjustified inequalities (provided that it works- a different question altogether!). The Marxist in me screams that the equalities are at their most unjustified in exploitative circumstances, ie. where large amounts of cash are accumulated but unearned.

But look how unequal our society is! It must be unearned (and thus exploitative)!

Wow, everything I am is based on a crude tautology...

   

Post a Comment

<< Home

B4L Running Costs

£1,970.29 spent since 2007, which could be met by a donation of £3.89 per blogger.




Join the Labour Party
Sign the Euston Manifesto
We Are ZCTU: Defend unionists on trial in Zimbabwe